Court of the Ginger King: The Ramones - Guilty of Over Importance
Now granted, I actually sold back my greatest hits of The Ramones a few years ago, but I still respect the ol’ New Yorkers. There’s nothing better than having a shitty day and listening to “Bonzo Goes to Bitburg” or “Teenage Labotomy” minutes on end. On the other hand, this is the band responsible for writing a song about “Pet Sematery.” Hmm, maybe I might agree with Russ on this one… nah. Let’s begin, folks!
-Michael Roffman, Editor in Chief
The Ramones are not the best punk band, originators of punk, relevant anymore, nor were they even that good a group of musicians. Take off the fucking Ramones’ logo shirt you bought at JC Penney and give it a rest. I am going back to lists for this one since it makes it easier for readers to criticize and get angry about things and it makes my job easier. Why? Because I get to just fill in the numbers.
1. “WHAGH, The Ramones started punk, not The Sex Pistols or any other band. WHAGH, I hate you.”
First of all, settle the fuck down. Now, first things first, I hate the movie SLC Punk! I fucking hate it. It disgusts me on both a music and film level, but I will say that the movie’s stance on disregarding that debate is an interesting one. Here is the thing about the punk movement: it was a media named musical movement of people with so much attitude about life they felt the need to play music no matter how sloppy or offensive it was. The “dumb ass” music press just happens to name the two similar-but-very-different-movements the same thing. Whoopsie. The Ramones didn’t start shit. Were they the first band to play guitar-driven, slightly sloppy rock tunes meant to get young teens dancing? Nope. Were they the first band to play music criticizing society? Nope. Were they the first band to focus on style and image? Nope. Were they the first to have a cult movie based on their music? Nope
Well, the last one doesn’t matter, but the point is that there were a lot of other bands playing sloppy, sassy rock music. (Sassy means ‘with attitude’! Watch out 1990’s cliché stereotypical gay men, I’m taking the word back.) The Ramones were a band of limited musical skill, playing aggressive songs. This was nothing new, and nothing was ‘started’. (Psst! It was being done in the 50s with garage rock). Plus, The New York Dolls and The Dictators were playing the same style of music in the NY area.
The fact is one band is incapable of starting a musical movement all by itself.
2. “I am a rebel, a misfit, don’t put me in a box, man. The Ramones speak to me.”
INT. MARKETING BOARD ROOM - Anytime, 1950-2000
A fine oak meeting table sits shrouded in smoke as a group of men sit around puffing away at their cigars. They are intently staring at a large man in a charcoal colored suit with a maroon silk tie sitting atop a black collared shirt.
MARKETING EXEC #1
We need a way to connect with everyone
aged 16-34, they need to buy our shit.
NERDY GUY IN LAB COAT
Well, what we have discovered in tests is
that everyone aged 16-34 thinks they are
a rebel or misfit in some way in their lives.
A red haired man busts into the room.
RED HAIRED MAN
Here’s the thing, if everyone else has the
same feelings you do you aren’t a rebel
or misfit. Neither you nor The Ramones are unique.
END SCENE
3. The Ramones are edgy as fuck; they are badass, mess with society, cause chaos and did crazy things.
I can buy Ramones merch at basically any clothing store in America. There are a bunch of Ramones’ fans who are in their sixties. Last time I was in Walgreen’s, I heard a Ramones song while I was picking up super glue and candy. Between The Clash, Sex Pistols, and The Ramones, most Americans know more of The Ramones.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they are kind of lame now. These punk rockers are basically accessible pop music at this point. It still isn’t as edgy as the Pistols’a stuff, too many old people and any guy off the street like it and their products earn millions every year.
Look I don’t want to be a dick here, I like The Ramones. The debut album will forever be on my iPod. But lets calm the fuck down and stop treating them like they were second coming. I know, I know. I am shitting on the memory of The Ramones, but at least I am not putting their names on any useless piece of shit they sell at fucking Hot Topic. Get the fuck out of here! They died! I respect the dead, but their impact as a band deserves to be respected and not to be used as a fashion statement by prepubescent suburbanites.
As I was saying, everyone needs to chill out. The Ramones were a good band, made people happy, and had something special. WERE. They were all these things, and if you bow before them now, you are probably old or stubborn. And if you were obsessed with them back then, you never heard garage rock.
The Ramones should not be as big or more well known than The New York Dolls or Talking Heads, but they are, which means people are getting a little out of line with their Ramones’ love.
Court adjourned.
Check Out:
New York Dolls - Looking For A Kiss
Yeah….this is a really bad article.
Of course, this was bound to happen sooner or later. Especially since the Ramones over the past 8 years have never been more popular. Shame that none of the 3 founding members get to enjoy that fame, mind you. But that’s usually how it works….an important band gets no recognition in the mainstream, until long after they’re dead.
This article just sounds like a high school kid blindly rebelling…not fully understanding why the Ramones are as important as they are. If the Buzzcocks were in the Ramones place, this article would be a rant about how much he hates the Buzzcocks.
It’s easy to claim something is “overrated” once it gains popularity. VERY EASY. The main difference between the Ramones and Led Zeppelin, however (besides the music) is that the Ramones NEVER achieved mainstream success until long after they died. The Ramones managed to influence an entire generation of kids without one platinum selling album.
As for bands like the Dolls and the Dictators….. Dick Manitoba himself will tell you the importance of the Ramones…as would any surviving member of the New York Dolls.
“Garage rock” also never existed in the 50’s. You’re simply not informed. “garage rock” is a retrospective term used to describe “60’s punk”, which was a term originally used in the early 70’s to describe the teenage bands influenced by the aggressive side of the british invasion. They started offically calling it “garage rock” a little later on, so it wouldn’t be confused with the “new” music of the time being called punk, with bands like the Ramones.
If this article was meant to piss people off, you failed. You’re just a representation of what was bound to happen sooner or later to the most important rock’n'roll band of the past 30 years.
I will say this though. i’m glad articles like these exist, because any knowledgable person can see its flaws. It’s basically just another thing on the internet I can point and laugh at. Or shake my head at in embarrassment…..
I think it’s great to go after sacred cows and the Ramones are that, but to say they “didn’t start shit” is completely reactionary and ill-informed. NOBODY in 1976 had the tempo velocity of the Ramones, and nobody sang about beating up kids with baseball bats, sniffing glue, axe murderers, etc. The celebration of all things antisocial combined with those tempos (hardcore bands later pushed this to the limit — much later) and the savage guitar tones, and the Ramones’ musical minimalism all came to be hallmarks of punk. I’m not saying they invented punk but they did contribute heavily.
By the way, the weren’t great musicians??? Ummm, you should save that criticism in case the Ramones are christened masters of prog or something. Fancy chops ain’t relevant to punk.
In short: DUMBASS.
I’ve got a video interview of Joey Ramone raving about how incredibly unique and gifted Led Zeppelin were. He said the Zeppelin that he witnessed between 1969 and 1972 (the early years) was the greatest band that ever stepped on a stage. He said, “I know that some punk bands took shots at Zeppelin, but the painful truth is that none of them could carry Led Zeppelin’s roadies’ jocks”. Another quote in the same interview: “Communication Breakdown” off of Led Zep-I in 1969 was the first and still the best punk rock song ever recorded. How’s that for irony”. I am one of many (more than I realized) people that love the Ramones, yet remain hopelessly addicted to Zep’s first six albums.
What you’re listening to:
Rancid, Rancid, Rancid, the worst Clash album (CTC doesn’t count), Op Ivy (great, but come on, are you 15?) and Interpol.
Your opinion on music is officially void.
You guys are my only friends.
and 14 rounds.
Excuse me, 1975
If this article was a boxing match, it’d be the Thrilla in Manila 1974…12 rounds of awesomeness.
As much as I completely disagree with Russell’s view on The Ramones, I love reading these articles. I certainly get my money’s worth, even if it is the direct opposite opinion.
Oh and Blake btw…keep going to communion and working hard. It’ll pay off one day!
“That includes: using fresh towels, going to people’s houses, having orgies, working hard”
That’s my favorite part.
the return of the guy who called me a fag, I love it and he is karazzier then ever.
who is to say what is sane or insane?
Well… that was certainly a surprise.
Does anyone know when sanity is coming back?
uhhhhh……. wow. a little bit much i think….
I’m going to go out on a limb here: Mark Pfeffer impinges on Brian’s perceived universal consensus about this article. Whagh.
I don’t know any of you. I teach english in Japan and masturbate furiously 5-10 times a day. That said, when I buy a six pack and cigarettes and come home to find that I have run out of downloaded episodes of Project Runway, I won’t waste my bandwidth getting music that I heard in an Esurance commercial.
Check it, the most high school shit on earth is commenting on “writing ability.” You can’t do it without mimicking the tone of Ms. Farry, your sexless high school teacher. When humans used fossil fuels, they cared about structure, grammar, and rithmatic. “Ms. Farry, can I use ‘And’ at the beginning of a sentence?”
“I don’t know, can you?”
“Oh (frustrated giggle), may I?
“Yes you may.”
Welcome to the modern age friends: information is coming at you. You can either look at the glimmering surface of your monitor and think about nothing, or you can think about ideas. Your choice.
With regard to the article. The part where Russell entered his own hypothetical in the third person made me feel horny. But I lost my boner when he belied his aversion to Suburbia, both in this article and the Lollapalooza one. Haven’t you seen Alpha Dog? Suburbia is our last, best chance at utopia. Go put on something hip and disappear into a city drug haze. I am going to connect with something real and do my best at life. That includes: using fresh towels, going to people’s houses, having orgies, working hard.
And that last sentence used parallel construction. The Japanese government says that the main purpose of education is to “teach students to be Japanese.” We’ve been taught to be Americans/other countrymen, which means knowing terms like parallel construction. We sit at church and listen to the preacher and feel a deep shame that we jacked off seconds earlier into the urinal, well-timed before communion. Those feelings and thoughts stay with us, but don’t flag it around like it matters.
I can’t wait for the Beatles rant!
I’m going to go out on a limb here: unlike the rest of the people posting here, Mark Pfeffer is not disinterested. My guess is that Mark and Russell are close friends.
Unlike everyone else (who explicitly stated an opinion) on this thread, I’m going to have to agree with Russell. Ramones over rated. I especially agree with points 2 and 3, as I’m constantly surrounded by people who think their quirky and unique but aren’t. Also, having worked at Walgreen’s, I know from experience that as soon as one of your songs gets played at the store, you are no longer relevant as an artist. Unfortunately this goes for bands/artists like Pink Floyd, Donovan and Ozzy Osbourne also.
Brian, I don’t see how you can claim that “It reads like a high school term paper written by someone who’s Mom never got a second date phone call from a dude…” is not a personal attack. Fuck you, you’re a fucking idiot for not recognizing it.
“Why bash that singular iconic rock logo and not the countless others that are being bastardized decades after the fact?” Because this is an article about the Ramones. It’s a sad fact that music and band logos are constantly being bastardized. For example, I stopped wearing my Led Zeppelin ‘77 US tour shirt about 8 years ago, when I realized that I was born in 1983, despite the fact that I’ll go to my grave claiming that they’re the greatest band that ever was or ever will be. (Also, I realized that I wasn’t being original or edgy by wearing it, since on any given day I see it about a dozen different times.)
DoSo, what is the point that you think should have been made? The article is logically constructed. It’s a list. If the numbers weren’t in order, then that would be illogical. Three common misconceptions about the Ramones,* each followed by arguments against them.
* Point 2 is more of a misconception that people have about themselves.
I’m kind of surprised. I thought the anti-Nirvana article was more negative, and would thus generate more hate. But it seems that people are confused by the sort of nontraditional opposite of argument-support structure of the article, and I guess this angers them. Russell, for your next article you should try to win back your audience: reprint your Lollapalooza review. I predict that everyone will love it.
“The Thomas Pynchon of online music blogs but with a rant edge.” That’s the description that’s going on Digg.
Yeah, I wasn’t complaining that you insulted The Ramones. Like I said, they are an easy target. I am not really trying to bash or criticize you either. This is rant and is obviously not supposed to be taken seriously. I guess I just wish it made more sense or was funny or something.
I’d like Russell to explain how he has been personally attacked. You wrote an “article” on a blog that was riddled with grammatical errors and reached a highly suspect conclusion. You should expect nothing less than the 5 or 6 readers of said blog to respond. In fact, Jasun’s response, which included no personal attacks, was far more compelling than your original post.
“Also, just so we can get clear here, if you are reading an artcile entitled ‘Court of the Ginger King’ and it is filled with profanity, changes in tempo and writing style, numbered lists and imaginary counterpoints, you should really learn what a sense of humor is and how it works on a daily basis.”
If this article was an attempt at humor, I have another four letter word beginning with the letter “F” for you: FAIL.
The Ramones were one of the least pretentious bands to ever come along. If only one could say the same about your writing…
I’ve been trying to hold myself back since we posted this article, but as someone who grew up in the NYC punk scene (and was fortunate to see the legendary band known as The Ramones live), I cannot support the material. I love the controversy, but to knock the Ramones is blasphemy…
The problem with this article, Russell, is it is so poorly written: utterly lacking in a logical flow, yet posing as a work of criticism. There’s a point to be made about the lionization of The Ramones, but you missed it by a wide margin. I guess that’s unique, but it’s not at all compelling.
Interesting take on the subject. I’ll always be a fan of the Ramones just for the simple fact that I enjoy the catchy tunes. Your point about everyone knowing more about the Ramones than the Pistols and Dolls was kind of proven at work tonight for me. Someone asked what I was reading and I mentioned an article about the Ramones and at least 6 people started singing “twenty twenty twenty twenty twenty four hours to go!”
This is my blanket response to everyone. Keep the personal slams coming everybody, I love ‘em. Beatles rant is actually coming up in a few weeks. I love the differentiation between AC/DC shirts being from Target and Ramones shirts from JC Penny. I never said zero impact on music. Any artist, music or otherwise, that states “we wanted to be like (insert hugely famous band here) but different” thinks way too highly of themselves. But, then again, I set out to be the Thomas Pynchon of online music blogs but with a rant edge. People who say “started a fire that still burns” is kind of the whole type of thing I’m ranting against. Many music fans are close minded to different genres, think way too highly of themselves, and tend to put too much stock in a select few bands.
Also, just so we can get clear here, if you are reading an artcile entitled “Court of the Ginger King” and it is filled with profanity, changes in tempo and writing style, numbered lists and imaginary counterpoints, you should really learn what a sense of humor is and how it works on a daily basis.
Like Alex said, ‘I love me some Clash.’
And David Byrne…yep, yep, yep…I actually never dug the Ramones…
That was me btw I forgot to type my name
His argument with the “person” he’s arguing with are jokes… All he’s saying are the Ramones are vastly overrated like Nirvana, or insert media darling band that has a unique story…
I think Russell’s point is to offer his unique take on things, and to say it’s unique would probably be an understatement, and spur a fun debate.
Just throwing it out there…
I second the what he said. Also, if we sub “The Ramones” for “The Beatles” you can make all the same arguments. Who cares if bands are “dead” or if there are better bands. People like some bands way too much and don’t like awesome bands enough all the time. The Eagles greatest hits is the highest selling album of all time and you think people like The Ramones too much? The Ramones lit a fire that still burns. You wouldn’t dispute that. So why the beef for no reason?
I am not complaining that you had the audacity to insult The Ramones. Part of the charm is that they are an easy target. I just don’t understand the point to this article. I also feel like you are arguing with someone who does not exist.
kudos to jasun
This is amazingly ridiculous.
It reads like a high school term paper written by someone who’s Mom never got a second date phone call from a dude.
“The only think I have to identify my biological father is this blurry picture that does not show his face, only his Ramones shirt… God, I hate The Ramones.”
I do not understand the breakdown of 3 “claims” about The Ramones.
They are put forth as though everyone in the world is walking around starting conversations like “The Ramones are edgy as fuck” or “WHAGH, I hate you” (TF “whagh” means). This is not the case in the least. You spend over 150+ words talking about a 10 year old movie that 90% of the world never saw but can’t understand why people are still talking about the ramones?
Do more kids walk around in Ramones shirts from JCPenny than Pink Floyd or AC/DC or Beatles shirts from target? I don’t think so. Why bash that singular iconic rock logo and not the countless others that are being bastardized decades after the fact? Clearly, if you think The Ramones had 0 impact in the world of music, you would agree that what Floyd or AC/DC or The Beatles did was nothing special as well.
But that is the thing. The Ramones had HUGE impact in the mid to late 70s punk/post punk/no wave/whatever scene in NYC, Detroit and London. I am going to assume you have heard the countless interviews with members of the clash and the damned that say their bands would have never existed had there been no Ramones. Not to mention their trips out to the west coast starting a movement that Henry Rollins claims is “the #1 reason” that there were bands like Black Flag and The Germs. I think that speaks volumes.
Also, it is not like The Ramones acted as though they started a revolution. Joey said many times that they wanted to be The Beach Boys or The Kinks, only 1000 miles per hour faster. They always admitted how influenced they were by the sounds of the 50s and 60s.
Finally, if your problem is with the people that still like The Ramones, and not the band itself, I don’t think you got the point across well enough. This really seems like a good idea piece, but ended up terribly missing. I was ready to be convinced, but found myself more interested in the errors a copy editor should have fixed before ever publishing this article.
TV on the Radio are like the greatgrandfathers of punk.
It’s all about the Clash!
Aug 27th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
[...] means in that context, but let’s just say… the tables might turn as opposed to that last Ramones debacle. Anyhow, let’s keep this dirty and unrefined (but not tacky), [...]